This interview with Ian Grimwood, Station Commander at Lismore Fire Station, took place just before the life-changing, record-breaking levee breach in the early hours of last Monday morning. Ian has described his week as sad, emotional and frustrating as any of his time in the Brigade. Here's some of the journey that led him here, as shared with Sara Browne.

I went to a primary school in Merrylands in Sydney that was right behind the Merrylands Fire Station so we used to hear the siren go off and see blokes running up there. I never, ever contemplated being a firefighter because I thought you had to do a lot of maths for it. I hated maths.

Then when I was over in the West Indies working on a boat, I got two letters from friends in the space of a week. One had joined the fire brigade and one had joined the police force. When I came back to Australia, I shared a house with the guy who had joined the fire brigade so I got to know the people he worked with.

I went to his workplace on Castlereagh Street in Sydney and saw what happened in there and how it operated. After working on boats and living a pretty alternative lifestyle, I couldn’t go back to an office, which I’d done previously. I thought then that the fire brigade was the thing for me.

I came back to Australia when I was 25, 1988, I bummed around working on boats in Sydney and doing different things and I eventually joined the brigade in 1992. I had applied in 1990 to join but I got another job offer on a boat to go overseas so I took that and then came back and did my exam.

Just after I was born, my father bought his first sailing boat so I grew up sailing. I was born in Parramatta, lived in South Wentworthville, went to school in Strathfield. We sailed on Parramatta River every Saturday and Middle Harbour every Sunday, off Clontarf. I’ve got two brothers either side of me and a younger sister. It was the best family thing we did. We met other families, we’re still in contact with people from those days.

Having a beer after 18 days at sea from Panama and sighting Grenada, 31 December 1987

Dad brought home a National Geographic from 1974 and it was all about the Pacific. It had a big map, the width of the Pacific Ocean, and I got this dream in my head that I wanted to sail across the Pacific. That was when I was really young, it was a thing that stuck in my head for many years. Eventually, I got that opportunity.

I finished school at St Pat's at Strathfield. I didn’t really know what I wanted to do so I went to teacher’s college. I lasted six months and got kicked out. I passed all my major subjects but my attendance wasn’t good. I was hanging out with mates and chasing girls and all that kind of thing that you do when you’re 19 or 20.

I ended up working at the local council in administration for two and a half years and got jack of that. I worked as a brickie’s labourer for a couple of years. I ended up working as a supervisor at the Parramatta Rugby Club and I quit that job to do a sailing passage from Noumea back to Australia with my brother’s girlfriend’s father’s boat.

That got the ocean sailing bug into me. I then got onto a famous racing yacht called Condor, a maxi yacht, doing a delivery across to New Zealand. The boat was getting retired over there so we sailed it from Sydney to Auckland. That was the first time I’d met professional sailors. They were talking about the Panama Canal and the Azores in the Atlantic and sailing in the Med and all this stuff and I thought, geez I got to get onto this.

The skipper of that boat recommended me to a guy that was in Sydney at the time with a yacht, they were looking for a crew member. I went down for the interview, got the job and about a month later we set off for Tahiti. 

That was 21 days. We did a 19-day stretch before we hit the first landfall, an island in the Austral group to the south of Tahiti called Tubuai. We stayed there for a couple of days and then up to Tahiti to Papeete. We used a watch system. You’d come up on deck and do an hour with the person before you, an hour by yourself and then an hour with the next person. So, it’s three hours on and I think five hours off.

The skipper of that boat started in 1975, he’s still working as a skipper of a big 50-metre white boat these days.

Easter Island, October 1987

As a career, I was waiting to see where it would lead. Sailing across the Pacific was my priority, to get that achieved for myself, anything after that was a bonus. It was a fantastic lifestyle. We went across the whole Pacific with just a sextant, no electronic navigation aids at all. The only thing we had on board was a weather fax so you could get an understanding of where the weather was coming from.

We went the same way Captain Cook did. It was a really good experience. The worst was two days out of Sydney, we sailed through an east coast low. The wind indicator was jammed hard to its maximum, up to about 60 knots. That was pretty scary but I had faith in the boat and faith in the skipper especially.

I felt a bit unsettled when I came back. I loved the sailing, I loved sailing into new harbours and new countries but I wasn’t getting contentment out of it. I always felt like I should have been contributing more so I suppose that led me into joining the fire brigade where I felt like I could make a difference or contribute somehow. Sailing the world is fantastic but it’s a very self-centred thing in a way.

To join the permanents, career firefighters, back in my day, we did eight weeks at the police academy at Goulburn. You did a lot of theory and a bit of practical. Then we came back to Sydney to Alexandria, the old college, and did another eight weeks. So, it’s 16 weeks and you march out as a probationary firefighter. Then about six months after that you do your first exam and you’re promoted to fourth class.

All the ranks have changed since I went through. To become a fully qualified firefighter, to get your first stripe, back in my day it was about three or four years. Having gone through military training too, it doesn’t really compare. I wouldn’t call it gruelling. It’s intense. I did military training in 2002 at Kapooka, ten years after I did my fire training.

Trimming the spinnaker, crossing Bass Strait, Sydney to Hobart on Broomstick, 1994

My first station was Castlereagh Street, City of Sydney. My first fire was a lovely building called the Grace Building on the corner of King and York. We went there thinking it was a false alarm but it turned into a fire in the basement, about eight stations came along.

It was an interesting initiation into structural firefighting. My first bushfires were the 94 bushfires in Sydney. I was working in Matraville on the day, 8th January, we got called into Como, that’s where they lost 87 houses and a woman died in a pool. I think we were the second fire engine into Como when it was going up. That was a pretty severe initiation into bushfires.

In the interview process when you go into the fire brigade, they asked us how would you deal with seeing a dead body, things like that. I’d never seen a dead body at that stage. You’ve got people around you who are going to support you. And the brigade will support you with things like that. It’s come a long way since then.

There are employee assistance programs and counsellors available. People do access them. There wasn’t so much training back then, almost 30 years ago. They might have done it by shock treatment. I can remember they showed us pictures from the morgue after the big bus crash down at Grafton, the remains of people. There were bits and pieces of people everywhere. They said to us, if you don’t want to watch this you can go outside but everyone was being stoic, stayed there and sat through it.

Whether that was designed to desensitize us or whatever, I don’t know. The mentality around that kind of stuff was pretty archaic by today’s standards. I don’t think anything really prepares you. You can’t prepare for seeing bodies that have been involved in accidents. It’s one of those things you either handle it or you don’t. I don’t dwell on things so, that’s the way I handle it.

The motto they’ve come up with is to be prepared for anything. The fire brigade is the combat agency for structural fires in our fire districts – you’ve got the rural fire service and us – we’re competing to a fair extent. We’re the sole combat agency for hazardous material incidents, all land-based incidents and inland state waters. We’re the accredited rescue agency for fire hazmat rescue.

In our fire districts, we can be the fire rescue agency for car accidents, anything else like that. In Lismore, police are primary so they’re the number one rescue agency. We’re what is called secondary in our fire district and the SES is secondary outside. They’re phasing those terms out. What we do is support, if required, all the other agencies. So, in flood, SES is the combat agency but we’ll support them with our rescue capabilities and manpower.

After headquarters, I toured around the city a bit – Darlinghurst, Pyrmont, Crows Nest stations – and I went back to headquarters on Castlereagh Street in 2005 as what they call the Flying Officer. 1992-2003, I was a firefighter then 2003 I became a Station Officer.

The Flying Officer is the boss on what is probably the busiest fire engine in NSW, possibly the busiest in Australia. It’s the first out the door to every call in Sydney. I was there for about 14 months in that position and then a position became vacant at Goonellabah. I was living at Taree at the time. We had moved up there in 2003, Leisa, my wife, had wanted to get out of Sydney so I was travelling back and forth for work. I applied for this job at Goonellabah and got the job after an interview so we moved up here in 2006.

I was the boss there for about three years and then got transferred to Lismore in 2009 and have been there ever since. That’ll be the end of my days there.

Having grown up on the beach at Clontarf, I loved that part of Sydney but I could never have afforded to live there. We were lucky we got in here at Lennox just before it went crazy.

I was sharing a place with two girls in Mosman in 97 and Leisa had gone to school with one of those girls, so that’s how we met. She’s from Mollymook on the south coast. She’s a nurse at St Vinnies. Our daughter has just started this year at the Living School, we’re really happy with how that’s going.

I’m really glad I took the job at Goonellabah and we’re living up this way. Lismore is a great city, the variety of people, there is an energy here, especially around the art gallery and the library, it attracts eclectic people. I know I’m not saying anything new about Lismore but it’s just got a nice energy, I like it. Compared to other places I’ve lived, it’s not as parochial, there’s a far better acceptance of people.

My rank is Station Officer, my title is Station Commander. I don’t particularly like that, it just sounds pompous, I try to avoid using it. But it means when I’m on duty, I’m the boss.

There’s four permanent shifts – A,B,C,D, platoons we call them - and then there’s the retained component. They’ve got a Captain and a Deputy Captain, their Captain is also called a Station Commander.

In Sydney, they’ve brought in a 50/50 recruitment of male and female staff, that came in a few years ago. That all takes time to filter out into the regions. There’s a couple of women in the part-time retained.

There’s a lot of people who live up in this region that still work in Sydney. We’ve got minimum staffing levels so if we’re short, they come and do some overtime. The last boss I had was a woman, Dawn Maynard, she’s in Port Macquarie these days. She was fantastic. I’d go anywhere with her, into any kind of incident. I had complete trust that she knew what she was doing.

When you take people as individuals, as long as they’re competent, that’s all you ask. There’s a lot of blokes that I wouldn’t want to go into a fire with. Don’t worry about whether you’re male or female, it’s how good are you at being a firefighter. That’s the way I feel about it.

Wife Leisa, Ian and his mother, Yvonne, at AFSM investiture, 3 May 2017

My grandfather - he was a career soldier - used to rock up every afternoon in his uniform and have a cup of coffee with my Mum. He went through WW2 and I developed this interest in military history.

I applied to go to Duntroon and I got off the train in Sydney, walked into the office for the interview and I just stopped and said no, this isn’t for me. So, I got on the train and went back to school.

By the time it got to 2002, it felt like the right time to join, so I joined the reserves. I joined a firefighting unit at Holsworthy in Sydney, called the Emergency Response Squadron. Then when I moved out of Sydney, you had to live within three hours of the depot to be able to respond.

We went down to the Canberra bushfires, that was one job we did with the army. I had to bail out of that, I was in a bit of limbo for a while and then when I came up here, I went to 41 Battalion in Lismore and asked if they needed clerks and they said yes, so I transferred into ordinance and became a clerk. I still do that.

My Dad was dux of his college and then went to do pharmacy at Sydney Uni so he was a pharmacist for 50 odd years. Dad met Mum while she was a doctor’s secretary in Merrylands. Mum was a housewife for 30 odd years. I called Dad the poorest pharmacist in Australia because he never owned his own shop. Mum used to work in the shop he managed.

My younger brother is a Station Officer at Bateau Bay Fire Station. My older brother is a town planner. He worked in local government now he’s running his own consultancy. My sister is a teacher.

There’s been a couple of times in my work life where I’ve been scared. I admit that pretty easily. We don’t really talk about that at work. It’s not something we discuss, maybe after the event. After all jobs, we debrief. There’s official debriefs, then there’s getting back to your station, sitting round with your crew having a cup of tea kind of thing, that’s where probably the real truth comes out.

The classic comment would be something crude like yeah, I shit myself when that happened. There are certainly times when your mind plays with you because you’re in a situation and you’re thinking – this could go bad really quickly - then you get scared. If you just concentrate on doing the job at hand as efficiently as possible and then getting out, that’s probably the way to go.

When you’re just in the job or still learning, you can be a little bit gung-ho, I know I was at times when I was a junior firefighter. Now, in my role, I’m more of a manager at an incident. I’ve got my crew, everyone who’s there is basically my responsibility. Their lives are in my hands. That makes me be a lot more reserved or cautious. Then again, it depends on the incident. If you rock up to a house fire and they’re telling you there’s people inside, well, you’ve got to take some risks then.

The fire brigade, as an organization, has become ridiculously risk-averse. It is a dangerous job at times and if we’re going to fulfil what the community expects of us and what we expect of ourselves, there’s times you’ve got to put yourself in danger. I’ve probably done things I don’t even realise how dangerous they are.

We went to a job in Maroubra one time and I got a guy out of a smoke-logged building, he would have died. I don’t dwell on stuff and the guys I know aren’t seeking glory, they just do their job. Personally, I haven’t carried someone out in the traditional firefighter’s way. But I could.

My wife trusts that I won’t do anything silly. You can’t always control what’s happening of course but she maintains a pretty level head about it. That side of our relationship is very good because we trust each other, that we’ll keep safe. As a nurse herself, she knows what that kind of stress is about.

Tabulam bushfire, 16th February 2019

I think about retirement every day. Until about 18 months ago, I never thought about it. I’d hate to be working past 65. If I can retire at 60, I will. That’s next year. I’ll have to wait and see. My wife doesn’t want me to retire because she thinks I’ll be a nuisance around the house. I’d like to contribute constructively to something, continue with marine rescue down at Ballina.

We went and pulled two people out of the water in June 2020. Their boat sank off Ballina at 230 in the morning, middle of winter. When I walked out the door, I could hear the waves smashing. I knew it was going to be a bad one.

They were doing a transit from the Gold Coast to Coffs, I think they hit something, their 45ft cruiser sank. I got a text from marine rescue at 2 in the morning. We went out on the boat, four of us on board, got out through the bar which was just atrocious at the time.

The Westpac helicopter was over the top of them as we came out so they directed us to these people. They’d been in the water probably an hour and a half by the time we got to them. That was definitely life-saving stuff. They wouldn’t have lasted til the morning. That wasn’t with my role as a fire fighter.

In the fire brigade, there’s a lot of little ways to save lives just with education, without having to go into a burning building and drag someone out. I suppose that’s where you have a bit of influence too, on people’s behaviour.

I used to do a bit of sailing up here but wasn’t getting the satisfaction out of the river sailing compared to what I used to do in the past. I follow the Sydney to Hobart race really closely. I did nine of them, the last one was 98 with the big storm. My first one was 88, between 88 and 98 I did nine. I missed 92 because I was at fire brigade college. I’m not really playing any sports or doing anything majorly active these days, it's more cerebral.

I’m a bit of an amateur historian. I’ve done some research into our family’s military history. I’ve gone back to about five or six great grandfathers who served in the Peninsula War against Napoleon’s people.

I’m the historian for the Marine Rescue Unit. I do a heap of fire brigade history stuff. That’s why I got the AFSM – Australian Fire Service Medal. It’s for distinguished service. It’s the highest award you can get as a firefighter, outside bravery, it’s nothing to do with bravery. It’s more about people doing things outside their normal work remit.

I did a big project on fire fighters that went to WW1 and were killed. They produced a video on that, I got interviewed and all that stuff. That work has been accepted into the State Library. I’d been away on an army weekend and I was driving up the road where we lived and I passed my wife and daughter coming the other way and they stopped and said, you’ve been nominated for an AFSM. I said, rubbish, that’s not going to happen. My daughter called out its true Dad - she was going off like a frog in a sock – it’s true, it’s true.

It was a big surprise. You never expect that kind of thing. It was nice to think that there’s people somewhere who think I’m doing a good job.