When the Premier and three ministers visited Lismore last week (Premier visits Lismore as questions get asked about Resilient Homes Program) to announce $5 million in funding for the Two Rooms project and answer media questions about the Resilient Homes and Lands Programs, there were only 30 minutes allocated to questions to try and get some answers to decisions made about the Lismore Flood Recovery and other Northern Rivers stories.

The Lismore App sat down with Member for Lismore Janelle Saffin to ask the rest of the questions so Lismore and Northern Rivers residents have the latest information.

Firstly, here are the latest statistics for the Resilient Homes Program as of 29 September 2023. There have been:

• 689 valuations, 485 of those in the Lismore LGA.
• 604 offers have been made for a house buyback, 440 in Lismore.
• 343 offers have been accepted, 268 in Lismore.
• 218 contracts have been exchanged, 181 in Lismore.
• 117 contracts have settled, 102 in Lismore.

The numbers are still well below the estimated 1,100 house buybacks which was well below the 2,000 mentioned early on in the Resilient Homes Program.

WHY IS COMMUNICATION SO DIFFICULT?

I don't know. I communicate what I know. Everything I know I communicate to people. I think things go through the 'prism of Sydney' and we end up with Sydney speak or no speak and that's what I'm trying to turn around so that there's absolute freedom here to say what's going on, and if you don't know, that's fine. I keep saying that, or it's uncertain or you can't say this because you're in negotiations on the land. That's okay, but just say that's where we are and we might be there in two weeks, we might be there in three weeks, hopefully, we'll be there sooner. Just say it, give snapshot like updates.

I do see that changing slowly. I get more information now and any information I get I share. No one has ever tried to censor me or say anything. They couldn't anyway, but they haven't. So I go out and say things.

It seems to be a mindset of the sort of bureaucracy and the political system. They don't want to give any uncertainty to the community. And I always say we can live with uncertainty if we have certainty around it. We've got an idea of where we're going. So I think quite differently about communications.

No information creates mistrust, and that's a big thing. The NRRC was already at ground zero. So we're trying to build that back.

RESILIENT LANDS

At last week's media conference, it was said that there are commercial confidences as negotiations continue for the development of land that was identified as part of the 'expression of interest' part of the Resilient Lands Program. It was also mentioned that Lismore City Council put forward parcels of land and as there are no commercial confidences in play, what is the latest?

Council has put some land up as the Reconstruction Authority told me. They're working through it. If that could come online to put some houses on or build some houses or move some houses too, it would be great. I think you'd have to ask council, I don't have the list of where the lands are. I got an indicative, sort of look at it, where they were.

It is council and RA on that one.

The Lismore App put the question to Lismore City Council last week with no response received as this story is published.

Ms Saffin said that the construction works could start pretty much immediately if the land is passed by the NSWRA (Reconstruction Authority).

I was told they were smaller blocks and I said, I don't care if it's two or a duplex or something (laughs). Even a duplex is a good thing. So I said, we just need to see something. It's better than ground zero. One they're negotiating at the moment is bigger, there are a few bigger ones and it would be great if they come online.

RESILIENT HOMES

The Lismore App understands there are three 'priority levels' regarding the Resilient Homes Program. Priority 1, 2 and 3. Priority 3 people could change their stream, that is house buyback, raising or retrofit, depending on the amount of money in the program. Last week learnt that there was $350 million to spend plus the NSW Government added close to another $100 million and Premier Chris Minns said there would be more to come. Does everybody know where they stand regarding the Resilient Homes Program and do those in Priority Level 3 know they are on a list?

Well, they would because they must be registered but not everybody's been told yet. People who've been offered buybacks, they did them first, with more to come I understand. I was told by the Reconstruction Authority, that they're just sending out letters now to get through to everybody.

If someone was told 'NO', could that change?

Two things would have to happen. If they're told 'no' now, it might be because they're never going to be offered one where they are, or more money. They are the two things.

Why doesn't the government just give us the $700 million for Tranche 2 funding to give people more certainty?

I have put that forward. They do say, oh well, we've got this money unspent and I say because we were promised this, we need to know it's all coming so we can plan.

You can only use what you've got and you can't give any false hope to someone on something that is coming so we've been told. I get that dilemma.

The point I made is, that we're recovering, but we're also doing an adaptation plan because there's always been voluntary house purchases and house raises but very few. And it was over a long period of time so people weren't expecting anything or thinking about it. In fact, it was more council saying, we want to do this. It wasn't the other way around, we want to do it, the people. And now, a lot of people say I want to buy back because I don't want to live there. We've never had that situation before.

Another scenario is where a street that may have been offered a buyback has homeowners who said no and then found out that their neighbours have accepted their offer so there is no street community any more and they want to change their mind.

That could happen because there was no planning for this either, which is what I called for really early with David Witherdin. Have a staged retreat plan and do it slower, because I said you need to be working with the local council and local community on what these neighbourhoods are going to look like.

VISION

Is that broader planning discussion happening now? What various streets and suburbs will look like in 10 years' time?

There's some discussion but really they're waiting for local councils to say what they want to happen in neighbourhoods, at a local government level. What I also said was, every local government has development plans to 2030, and I actually even wrote to the former government and said, can you fund the councils to update them taking into account 2022?

But, we don't need the money to have a plan or a vision? We need to script what we want in a neighbourhood. I mean, yes, you need a little bit of money to formulate it and do it, I get that. I understand Lismore City Council will have money to do the vision, so there is money available, but it's not the money for the whole thing. But if you don't have it, you've got nothing, nowhere to go. You've got to ask for it.

It's not saying, we want $50 million here, so we're not going to start. Say what you want and then we go for it. Look, councils are ideally placed, and not councils alone, but they've got to be council driven, because they're there. I'll back them every step of the way to work with them to get the money. They are in the key seat, so to speak. They do the development plans for the area. So, I still come back to those plans up to 2030, their broad brush vision, and then factor in what happened in 2022. It just might be a straightforward way and think a bit beyond that, how we integrate ourselves into the broader region.

Do local councils operate as silos? Could they have a more collaborative approach?

They are set up to operate as silos. We've got the Northern Rivers Joint Organisation of Councils as well and the Reconstruction Authority has talked about involving them more in the regional planning, but we still need each local government area to have their own vision and plan.

How effective is the joint organisation as a body? Does it help the region effectively?

What I've seen happen over decades with regional organisations is they often come together, but they don't always act regionally because they still take all their own parochial stuff to the table and we get that, you know, we'd come back with the parochial stuff. In this situation, there's an opportunity to step up, because what happened in 2022 was so different. So we've all got to step up a bit outside the box and do things a bit differently.

FLOOD MAPPING

Why isn't the February 28, 2022, data not included in determining who gets what stream in the Resilient Homes Program? Whose decision is it to accept that as the criteria used?

I don't get that. I don't understand why not. To me, that wasn't a scientific basis.

Honestly, I've asked the question. I do not know. Remember in 1991, there was a report done that showed we could get floods up to 16.8 meters or something. For me, the flood that happened in 2022, I don't understand why it is not being used because the response for the whole adaptation plan to what happened in 2022 should include it. And the point I keep making is it wasn't just a flood. I've lived through every flood here. A lot of people have. We've waded around in waters, all of that.

This one, because of no warning and people being rescued, we've got a traumatised community in residential areas. That is the difference. So the buybacks and the house raising and relocation and all of that. And we're doing two things combined. Normally an adaptation plan, which is what it is would be done before such an event. We're doing it during the recovery phase. So there's a lot of trauma involved in it. And it wasn't managed like that from the start.

Is February 28, 2022, considered a one-off event by the relevant agencies and government bodies?

Well, you hear it, everybody says unprecedented. I always said that was code for we didn't organise, I didn't know what was going on. I'm very public about that. I even said in my submission to the flood inquiry, I said, that's not true.

When the CSIRO study is released, could that modelling be used to change the Resilient Homes Program criteria?

I would hope so. I would hope so, we'll have a better barometer. Secondly, the mappings are being peer-reviewed now.

There's three people who are doing the peer review who have expertise in the area.

Everything that everybody has done here to date is hydraulic. What the CSIRO are doing is looking particularly around mitigation issues, and they're saying, this is what happened in 2022. We are recreating it and we test every bit against 2022. And then we see what happens and then extrapolate what could be done. So that's what they're doing, to help us with mitigation. I guess that will be like the Rolls Royce measure. We have the mini-minor measures now. That is the best way I can explain it without going into the science of it.

We didn't start in a good position with the flood maps. I can't be any clearer about what I've said about the maps. I have no faith in the maps. I mean, how much clearer can I be?

I think it would have been easier to do a street walk on a case-by-case basis. As I said, from the beginning, the most vulnerable, the most sort of, I wouldn't say emotionally but at risk for a whole lot of psychiatric mental trauma. Some people do get trauma and they cope and recover and they're fine. To me, that's how I would have done it from the start.

Has the flexibility of the Resilient Program Homes changed?

Yes, it is. Let's take a buyback. Someone's found a house (since they have been offered a buyback) and they're ready to put their deposit on it. No, they can't get money released. So, I've got that changed. Now people want to buy land, and they didn't get enough money released to do that. Now, that's changing. Everything can change, but it shouldn't have been so hard from day one, and it is, but it is changing.

On the whole, instead of seeing things as a problem or a complexity, I say see it as a challenge. How do we get around it? Even where people have got a home but they've got some commercial buildings in it? Oh, it's complex? Oh, yes, I know it's complex. Let's deal with it. Every single thing has been complex but it's not that complex that we can't turn our mind to it.

Every single thing is changing even with some people. Remember, it's not a compulsory scheme, it's voluntary. And if someone's offered a buyback and they don't want to move but want to do a house raise and it can be done, then I simply say offer it to them. Because it's not a compulsory acquisition program.

House Relocation

A couple of people have already now gifted homes. So, they've had a buyback and the homes have been allowed to be gifted. If someone's got a piece of land, they can move their house to it. So all that's been worked through. Some people have land, they can go to. You don't have to wait for the Resilient Lands Program.

I never called for the Resilient Lands Program, I just called for the Resilient Homes Program, but with a plan. The Resilient Lands Program, that's $100 million and I think everybody then, without any communication, which we've lacked dreadfully, never said, well that won't necessarily coincide with buybacks, this will happen over time, and it will help the whole community. So now, we have believed that the two would happen together. That's what I said would be ideal.

Three Lismore City Councillors have twice asked for a letter to be written to ensure that Lismore's old houses will be relocated and, if demolished, the timbers reutilised. Is that happening?

I already put out a statement on that and wrote to council about it and everybody and have that in absolute writing. That's already done, so a moot point.

If you have any questions about Lismore's Flood Recovery, email simon@lismoreapp.com.au.